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@ 13. Dec. 2006. – 07:52:34
I know that people in Ipswich are frightened following the murders that have taken place over the last week or so, but why is it that it's the women who are being asked to stay indoors?
This crime is most probably being perpetrated by a man - so why not place a curfew on men and let the women have the freedom to go out and enjoy themselves?
safriz
Is it? I think telling women to stay in was sexist, especially when they are the victims
safriz
police are using common sense,and saying the right thing.
Yet again,it is not a curfew,just an advise.
fervid
Ok Safriz, if it's not a curfew, why doesn't police advice instead request that all MEN stay in after dark, or only go out in pairs (so to have an alibi) and anyone found in the red light district of Ipswich arrested and taken into the police station for further questioning on suspicion of murder.
It's only 'good advice' , wouldn't you agree?
fervid
Nannyogg, you are one of few people who think like this. Most folks think it's sensible to tell women what to do, but totally unacceptable to tell men. The first response here demonstrates that. The "how dare you suggest our male privelge" is taken away" attitude.
There is no sexism here, just a typical, chauvinist attitude.
Great post! 
fervid
I agree with Nanny Ogg. The perpetrator of these murders is most likely male, yet, as per fucking usual, women are being asked to restrict their lives because of this person's actions. Instead of telling women to stop doing x, y, z, why don't we tell murderers and rapists to stop murdering and raping.
Why? ...because women are second class citizens and why 'incriminate all men' by telling them to stop raping/ murdering, when you can incriminate ALL women by telling them to stop living their lives freely.
Nannyogg... this is why I'm a feminist. We live in a victim-blaming society. Futhermore, if a self-identified feminist uses the term "victim" they're assumed to have a 'victim mentality'and blah, b;ah, blah.
safriz - how is Nannyogg's post sexist? Because she states that most probably the perpetrator will be a man, which let's face it, it is most likely.
safriz
i have posted a reply to your comment.
What an excellent idea!! Very clever of you Nanny Ogg. xx
Usksider
Pro Virtually impossible to police I'd have thought. Ask women to stay at home if they feel unsafe and they just might. Ask men to stay away and people will complain the wheels of industry are grinding to a halt. There must be thousands of men (and women too of course) who travel through the area every day on their way somewhere else...
I sort of get what you mean Nan. I'm not actually sure that they have specified just women but I would say they most probably think it's a man who's doing it and he's hardly likely to stop at home if they ask him to is he? They just want fewer people on the streets to facilitate their investigations and all the victims have been women. I don't think there's any real sexist axe to grind here, do you? For instance, I'd rather you were home safe blogging aabout your frustration rather than out there at risk.
Stay calm, I'm sure they'll catch ther perpetrator, hopefully soon.
GB
fervid
>
How totally condescending.
How unfortunate that you should interpret it that way...
GB
faffajane
Pro Yet on another site I visit one person on there is convinced it is a woman doing these murders!
But I do know what you mean the thought crossed my mind as well, but probably it is easier to police women do tend to feel more vulnerable
It also reinforces the idea that women should not be out on their own (day or night) and feeds the fear.
faffajane
Pro True but considering the state of affairs and the fact that it he/she is targetting women then surely it is better to be safe than sorry
mad-poet
spot on nannyogg. but there would be no point in leting the girlls stand on street corners if all the men had to stay at home
dennypoos
I don't think we should be asking anyone to stay indoors, this isn't the nineteenth century and the perpetrator isn't Jack the ripper. The best advice would be for girls with skirts up to their arses not hang about under lamposts asking motorists if they are 'looking to do business'.
Rocket science it isn't!
A modicum of common sense will see no one else hurt.
safriz
well the perpetrator seems to be more cunning than jack the ripper.
lennington
I know I'm going to regret getting into this :-(
Rather than stop women hanging about under lamp posts, why not just legalise prostitution and then men and women who want to work, *don't* have to do it on the streets where it is inherently unsafe, but can openly work in safe(r) establishments where their security is paramount.
As for the original point - I don't think either the police advice or Nannogg's advice were sexist - they were just 'advice'. It would have been sexist if they said 'women should stay inside because they obviously encourage men to rape them' just like it would have been sexist to say 'men should stay in side because they will end up raping someone if they go out'. Sexism, like racism (like most 'isms) is about negative generalisations...
I did write a fairly long piece in this comment but decided to take it out - perhaps too controversial (and therefore rude) to say too much in someone elses blog!
safriz
In holland there are propper red light areas and so many escort agency,but still one can find the street hooker.Legalising will mean paying tax on the income and protitution as per "terms and condition" and most of these girls won't follow the legalities.
Most street hookers are drug addicts or women after easy money.There may be circumstances which led them to this way of life,but i am not going in that.
Less than 100 yards from my home,there is an area where many pros stand in the night,waiting to be picked up.There is a mosque nearby,where i go for the evening prayers.I get a chance to observe these women almost every night,when i am going and coming back from the evening prayers.some of them stand in the middle of the road and stop cars,for business.I have seen some gettin in cars without even looking at the occupants.Most even accept business withoutr money,if they are offerred narcotics,and people who have narcotics ready at hand can't be "safe",but these girls don't seem to bother.
fervid
Safriz, you said most of the women in your area as 'street' prostitutes accept business without money. How do you know this?
I agree that a high number of the very same women you are speaking of are substance misusers. In your area, DAT (Drug Action Team) has been faciliating a drop-in centre for prostitues for the last 2 years. This alone is insufficient. Firstly, not all prostitutes are substance misusers, not all want help, some are too afraid of getting "into the system", etc etc....
fervid
I understand what you're saying about legalising prostitution, but I'm in mixed minds as to whether to pros outweigh the cons. Is legalising it bringing greater acceptance to something that fundamentally degrades and de-humanises women (whether or not they are willing participants).
safriz
Atlest in this country,i can say that they are prostitutes by their own choice.
I have a long history of interacting with them,and i respect them as humans.Inside,all of us are the same.
I don't support prostitution,it's an evil.
But it is not possible to get rid of it.This profession was always there,and will remain.Prostitites are every where.They are in Rome,they are in Mecca,they are in Jaruselum.
Until 1979 prostitution was legal in Pakistan.There were propper red light areas.The next president banned it,and outlawed it.As a result,they spread everywhere.
Previously they were contained in certain areas,later they were all over.
Legalising prostitution will propagate this mode of esy money.Outlawing it can't stop it.Best approach is to let it happen,and keep it illegal at the same time.
fervid
I'm sorry to spoil your fantasy, but even in this country, there are many prostitutes forced into it.
Not sure why prostitution is considered a 'profession', but hey ho.
Wow! I find it hard to believe the Islamic country of Pakistan legalised prostitution. I suppose this down to the patriarchy too, and the myth that women have lower sex drives than men and all that BS. So, allah didn't mind prostitution then?!
safriz
girls bought overseas andd brought over here for prostitution,don't stand on streets,and yes they are forced into prostitution.
but how do you think that the free lance road hookers are forced to prostitution in brittain?i donno about it.
in late 70's when whore houses were legal and so were the casinos in pakistan,the prime minister "Zulfiqar ali bhutto" was ideologically a communist.
His dicissions had nothing to do with Islam.
fervid
Forced by pimps, forced by partners or family, forced by addiction, forced by homelessness etc etc..... these are all forced and not 'free-lance' as you wish to call it.
fervid
...but yes, I agree that prostitution will be around for as long as vile men are.
See I told ya you are a wise and smart Nannyogg!! Think your idea is brilliant.
safriz
The investigation is not finished yet,and nobody can be sure about the killer being a man.The only thing everybody is sure about is that the killer is after women.
So the only confirmed thing here is that women's life is at risk,and thats why the police are asking them to be careful.
If the killers could be told not to kill,there was no need of law enforcement.It is not possible.
Being careful for one's own safety when there is an imminent danger is very logical.
isadora101
Putting a curfew on men is hardly going to stop a deranged killer going out is it. It's against the law to murder so breaking a curfew is hardly going to worry him.
I have to agree with Safriz on the point that asking people (be it male or female) who are in imminent danger to be careful, is very logical. I don't think there is anything remotely sexist in this whatsoever.
isadora101
btw. thanks for the post, it certainly provoked a bit of a debate
Living in Ipswich I feel much safer staying in and that was before the murders !!!
You wanna go out be my guest 
It is interesting that it is assumed it's a man. Everyone says "he".
safriz
at the moment i suppose it may be any body.Even an alien from outer space.No point in assigning a gender to the killer.
fervid
Moltsplace, you said interesting how most people say "he" assuming it's a man.
Ever noticed how no-one ever complains in everyday language when "he" is used as default?
For whatit's worth, I used he, because chances of a woman being behind this, are slim IMO. And heck, i will have my own opinion!
I should have made clear that the point I made about "people saying he" was in relation to the media and news reporting and the fact that there is no proof either way but they've said that from day 1.
I would be the first to assume it's a man simply because of where the bodies had to be carried to.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, that's what makes it interesting
lyndlj
To join in, ninety per cent of Serial Killers are men, which is why it is assumed it is a man.
And if what has been said is to be believed he has done it before, 13 years ago, now he stopped at five then so he may stop at that number or he may continue. The point of a serial killer is they will find their victims whether they stay in or go out.
safriz
Yup most serial killars are men,but i know atleast one case in which two women killed over 100 people in 25 years without being caught.It was in Alexandria Egypt.
Although one man was involved too,as he disposed off the corpses.
But women when fired up,are far more deadly than men.
It's not a matter of gender,it is an individual issue.
lyndlj
We could all use the history books to show mass murder by women, I myself know of many, a whole village that killed during the war, and continued after.
This is not History it is now and as things stand right now, it is mainly men that kill in this way,illogical as it may seem, as sexist as it may sound,it isn't it is fact.
fervid
ONE case Safriz.... c'mon, that's a feeble attempt at proving "it could be a woman".
You said "women when fired up, are more deadly than men" then proceeded to say "it's not a gender thing". Make your mind up! You're contradicting yourself there.
All I can say is tat this is an interesting interlecual debate but is devoid of common sense and reality.
Women are vulnerable to attact from this murderer.
It is almost certainly a man who is the killer.
the killer is picking women up from the streets, prositutes are easy pickings, a man can pull to the side of teh road and within seconds a vulnerable woman is inside his car and he is driving her off to a location of his choosing, a quiet location, and is able to gain close intimate contact without raising suspicion. It could well be the case that he is able to strangle the victims before they know there is a problem.
If there are no prositutes available he may well pick on any vulberable woman on the streets like other such murders in the past so all women could be at risk if alone on the streets.
Hypothetical interlectual argiments are all well and good for a blog or debating society but would you yourself if a woman, or would you let your daughter, wife, girlfriend etc walk the streets of ipswich alone just so yu can occupy the moral high ground.
Would it be sensible to expend Police resources on DNA testing women as well as men just to prove there is no prejudice?
By and large women are not as agressive or physically storng as men through the biological situation of evolution. Therfore it is likely to be a man and a woman is more vulnerable to attack than a man would be.
The police simply do not have the resources to stop all men, or women, walking the streets of Ipswich.
I would also like to remind everyone that although fear may be higer in the dark it may well be that this murderer is striking in daylight, we do not know when the victims were abducted.
good on you Nanny Ogg for raising the point though, but as the saying goes, " If my Aunty had bollocks she would be my uncle"
Tentativeplotfinder
I caused a certain amount of dropped jaws at work today by saying in a loud voice - "There are male prostitutes and women murderers, you know."
fervid
What point were you trying to make?!
Tentativeplotfinder
The fact it's very easy to make assumptions based on gender.
In this instance, obviously, it is all women, and statistically, it is more likely to be a male murderer. BUT - it might not be...and it's also very easy to assume when you say "prostitute" you mean a woman.
fervid
Assumptions are made about gender all the time. Assuptions about female gender is often overlooked, or worse still, accepted. "Women cook and clean."
" Men are breadwinners." Two generalisations that are detrimental to both women and men to a certain extent.
Tentativeplotfinder
True, and I try not to make detrimental assumptions either way!!
The context of my original comment was that I was sitting getting more and more annoyed with a series of some quite judgmental statements... about women! What I was trying to do was get a different perspective, and a bit of thinking around what is a very, very emotive set of issues, which I did manage to do.
I'm sorry if I've offended you at all.
fervid
Hey no... course you didn't.
I think it's good to get people thinking outside their little boxes. Good on ya!
Tentativeplotfinder
Phew - that's good!
I tend to not be very good at being logical and it can go wrong....
Tentativeplotfinder
True, and I try not to make detrimental assumptions either way!!
The context of my original comment was that I was sitting getting more and more annoyed with a series of some quite judgmental statements... about women! What I was trying to do was get a different perspective, and a bit of thinking around what is a very, very emotive set of issues, which I did manage to do.
I'm sorry if I've offended you at all.
You are correct about gender assumptions.
It's the same sort of thing as assuming all victims of domestic abuse are women or that all abusers are men.
fervid
I've never heard this generalisation, only hear people saying "men are abused too"
Another generalisation is that male DA statistics are underreported, but women's are accurate. ie.ALL female victims of DA are part of the statistics. The fact is, bioth female and male are underreported.
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thats sexist